Creator Conversations - Retro

In the time between January 2007 and June 2015, journalist Bryan Stroud had the opportunity to interview several members of the Old Guard of the comic book community. These are the people who worked in the bullpens, creating characters that are still loved today and crafting the visual style of graphic storytelling for generations to come. Some of these industry pros were happy to tell stories while others chose short, to-the-point answers - but all of them were generous with their time. Watch this page for weekly Wednesday updates.

December 13, 2017

An Interview With Sheldon Moldoff - The Prolific Penciller Behind Early Batman

December 13, 2017/ Bryan Stroud

Written by Bryan Stroud

Sheldon Moldoff sitting at his drawing table.

Sheldon "Shelly" Moldoff (born on April 14, 1920) was an American comic artist best known for his early work on the DC Comics characters Hawkman & Hawkgirl, and as one of Bob Kane's primary "ghost artists" (uncredited collaborators) on Batman. He co-created the Batman characters Calendar Man, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, Clayface (Matt Hagen), Bat-Mite, Bat-Girl, Batwoman, and Ace the Bat-Hound. Moldoff is also the sole creator of the Black Pirate. In his time working with the Dark Knight, Sheldon pencilled: 146 issues of Detective Comics, 121 issues of Batman, and 61 issues of World's Finest Comics.

Mr. Moldoff passed away on February 29, 2012 at the age of 91.

Batman: The Beginning by Sheldon "Shelly" Moldoff.

As my little journey continued and I started to see some success, I began to get interested in certain flavors of creator, if you will. I was fascinated, for instance, in the many ghosts of Bob Kane so it seemed logical to seek out perhaps the most prolific - Sheldon "Shelly" Moldoff. Legend has it that at Bob Kane's funeral, Marty Pasko commented to Julie Schwartz that someone should make certain it wasn't Shelly in the casket. When I called, he preferred that I send him my questions through the mail, so once again, I was unable to influence his responses or get clarification as I'd have liked to, but it's still a letter I treasure. Later on I'd have the chance to catch Shelly in a talkative mood and he shared some interesting tidbits.

This interview took place through the mail in May of 2007.

Bryan Stroud: Your major contribution to DC’s Silver Age was your ghost work for Bob Kane on the Batman titles from the early 50’s to the late 60’s. What was that like? Did you ever tire of drawing and sometimes inking the character?

Sheldon “Shelly” Moldoff: I never tired of drawing.

Batman #156. Cover pencils by Sheldon Moldoff.

Detective Comics #352 splash page original art by Sheldon Moldoff.

Batman #156 cover recreation commission done by Sheldon Moldoff.

Stroud: How did you manage to keep your “ghost” status under wraps?

SM: I never advertised that I was Kane’s ghost. But I’m sure some editors suspected it—but never mentioned it!

Stroud: I understand you and Kane co-created Betty Kane, the original Bat-Girl along with Bat-Mite and Ace the Bat Hound. Was the last name “Kane” a coincidence?

SM: Kane didn’t co-create any characters. I read the script and developed the characters.

Stroud: Why were you, Wayne Boring and Joe Papp let go in 1967? Did it have anything to do with the effort to get some benefits from DC for the freelancers or was it due to the sale of DC and the departure of Irwin Donenfeld?

SM: Sales of comics were down – D.C. editors decided to change to a more realistic style to accommodate the change in storylines.

Golden-Age Hawkman commission done by Sheldon Moldoff.

Sheldon Moldoff with Batman & Robin art.

Hawkman recreation commission done by Sheldon Moldoff.

Stroud: Am I correct in saying you created Hawkgirl? A husband and wife superhero team was quite a different idea what with all the sidekicks at the time like Robin, Green Arrow’s Speedy and so forth.

SM: I created Hawkgirl!

Stroud: Were you involved at all in the daily Batman comic strip?

SM: I was not involved in the daily Batman strip.

Stroud: What were your impressions of Bob Kane? Did you work much with Bill Finger?

SM: I don’t care to discuss Bob Kane – Finger was a good story man – and was happy to be working!!

Moon Girl #4 original cover art by Sheldon Moldoff.

Action Comics #287 original cover art by Curt Swan & Shelly Moldoff

Stroud: Legend has it that Batman was in danger of being canceled in the late 60’s. Is that true and how could it be? Everyone knows the Batman.

SM: Jack Liebowitz would not permit Batman to be canceled. He proved right!

Stroud: I understand you did work on the Sea Devils, the Legion of Super-heroes and Superboy. When was that and in what capacity?

SM: I only inked Sea Devils. Inked the others. Did a lot of inking on Curt Swan’s Superman.

Stroud: The Batman logo has changed several times over the years. Whose idea was it and who designed the updates?

SM: The lettering department sometimes changed the logos.

Bat-Mite commission from 2011 done by Sheldon Moldoff.

Stroud: Do you still do commissions? How would someone contact you to get one?

SM: Very few commissions.

Stroud: Have you seen the Batman Returns movie? What did you think?

SM: Batman movies are fair…comic books tend to be more realistic in art and story. (I suspect Shelly thought I was referring to the animated movies.)

Stroud: Are comic books becoming obsolete art forms?

SM: No one knows why some features become so successful – and others fail – if we did, we would have a hit every time we came up to bat.

Flash Comics #1. Cover pencils by Sheldon Moldoff.

All-American Comics #16. Cover pencils by Sheldon Moldoff.

More facts about Shelly Moldoff (courtesy of Mark Evanier):

He was one of the artists who worked on the historic Action Comics #1 (1938) which featured the first appearance of Superman. He didn’t work on the Superman material in that issue but he did have artwork in what some call the most important comic book ever published. And he was the last surviving person who did.
He worked as an assistant and ghost artist to Bob Kane on the earliest Batman stories that appeared in Detective Comics.
He drew the cover of Flash Comics #1 (1940) which introduced the original Flash to the world.
He drew the cover of All-American Comics #16 (1940) which introduced the original Green Lantern to the world.
He was the artist of the original Hawkman feature beginning with the character’s fourth appearance and continuing for several years.
He was by some accounts the inventor of the horror comic book, having proposed the idea to EC Comics publisher William Gaines before Gaines came out with his own Tales From the Crypt.
He was the ghost artist for Bob Kane on the Batman comic book stories and covers that Kane allegedly drew between 1953 and 1967. He also worked for DC Comics directly, often as an inker of covers on all their key titles including the Superman books.
He also worked for Kane as the main artist/designer of the animated TV series, Courageous Cat and Minute Mouse.

Courageous Cat, Minute Mouse, and Flat-Face Frog - circa 1980. Art by Sheldon Moldoff.

December 06, 2017

An Interview With Carmine Infantino - From Penciller to Publisher and Everywhere In Between

December 06, 2017/ Bryan Stroud

Written by Bryan Stroud

Carmine Michael Infantino (born on May 24, 1925) was an American comics artist and editor who was a major force in shaping the face of DC Comics through the Silver Age. In his early career as an artist, Carmine would freelance for any company that would have him, including Timely, Prize Comics, Hillman Periodicals, and Fawcett. In 1956, DC Comics editor Julie Schwartz would assign Infantino to help revamp the DC line of superheroes. By 1966, Carmine was in charge of the cover design for the entire DC line of books. From there, he rose to Art Director, and eventually Publisher of DC Comics in 1971. In his later career, he would go on to work for Marvel as well - providing art for Daredevil, Nova, and Star Wars, among others. Carmine Infantino passed away on April 4, 2013 at the age of 87.

It's funny the things you remember. As my journey interviewing my Silver Age heroes was getting up some steam, I somehow recalled a snippet from my copy of "The Deadman Collection" (a generous gift from my life-long best friend) wherein Nicola Cuti wrote a segment - ironically titled "Behind the Scenes: Carmine Infantino." Here is how it begins:

"When I called Carmine Infantino to find out his views on his part in the creation of DEADMAN, he apologized and told me that it was a long-standing policy of his not to give interviews."

Somehow that stuck in my mind, so when it was suggested that I reach out to Carmine, I thought it was a doomed proposition from the start. Having had a little recent success, though, I reasoned that I had little to lose. And so armed with his phone number, (and after practicing a couple of times with my long-suffering bride), I called him up. To my surprise and delight, he agreed to the interview! After it was completed I figured I'd officially hit the peak and it would be all downhill from here. Fortunately I was very wrong, but when you get to speak to the man who ushered in the Silver Age of DC Comics and did so much more important work along the way (and, not content with that, moved up the ranks to art director and ultimately publisher of DC Comics) - well, it's pretty special, to say the least.

All-Star Comics #40. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

The Brave and the Bold #49. Pencils by Carmine Infantino. — The Brave and the Bold #49. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

Detective Comics #332. Pencils by Carmine Infantino. — Detective Comics #332. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

This Interview took place on May 8, 2007.

Bryan Stroud: Your contributions to the Silver Age are impressive. The “Flash of Two Worlds” brought the Golden Age Flash to a new generation and the concept snowballed from there. You brought Batman back from the edge and of course you ushered it all in by designing and drawing the reintroduced Flash, in Showcase #4. Was there a sense that something new and exciting was brewing with the revival of the super hero?

Carmine Infantino: I was not involved in that. That was an office policy. They had meetings every month. Irwin Donenfeld was in charge at that time and he had a meeting with all the editors involved and they’d go around the table and decide what they wanted to do with Showcase. And then someone suggested The Flash. No, no, I’m sorry, superheroes - someone suggested superheroes and most of them turned it down, but Irwin insisted on it - and then he also insisted on Julie (Schwartz) doing it. Okay, and then I got a call the next day, I believe, and Julie wanted me in the office, wanted to see me and I was on The Flash, like it or not.

Stroud: So you weren’t necessarily all that excited about it?

CI: No, I was not. I didn’t like the idea of doing any more superheroes. I’d done The Flash earlier, you remember?

Stroud: Many great inkers have gone over your pencils, to include Joe Kubert, Murphy Anderson and Joe Giella. Who did you prefer to have inking you?

CI: Right. Frank Giacoia. He was my favorite. We went to school together, the School of Industrial Arts and we became close friends and he started out as the penciller. I was the inker. I don’t know what happened, but somehow we got reversed later. We went up to Joe Simon’s and showed our work at Marvel. It was called Timely Comics in those days, and he offers us both a job, and Frank decided to take it. We’re both 16 or 17 at the time, and when I got home and told my folks, they said, “Oh, no. You’re going to finish school first, before you do anything else.” So my father said, “If they want you now, they’ll want you later.” And he was right. I’m glad I hung onto school. Frank didn’t. Frank went right on in and went to work there.

Stroud: It sounds like your folks were wise.

CI: I think so. Actually, we needed the money at the time, too, but my father could care less. Very forceful, but he did what he felt was right. And he was right. Education is the key.

Stroud: 100% correct. Can’t fault him in any way.

CI: No sir.

Carmine Infantino and Murphy Anderson - Joker Poster Illustration 1966

Carmine Infantino and Murphy Anderson - Penguin Poster 1966

Carmine Infantino and Murphy Anderson - Riddler Poster 1966

Stroud: What is it like to interpret a script and lay it down in pencil?

CI: Oh. Well the way we worked, Schwartz and I, was very different. I would create covers, and then he would write stories around them. It sounds crazy, doesn’t it?

Stroud: Yeah, it sounds exactly backward.

CI: Yeah, but let me explain something. I would do one thing…remember the Trickster?

Stroud: Yeah.

CI: He’s running in mid-air, right?

Stroud: Right.

CI: Flash came to a stop on the cliff behind him.

Stroud: Right.

CI: Well, that’s a cliff-hanger. You want to see what the hell’s going on with it. And that’s how it worked. So I’d create these covers…you look back at all the covers; they all have that kind of theme somehow on them. They’re all cliff-hangers in one way or another, and they’re very effective.

Stroud: Yeah, apparently so. I read something somewhere, I don’t know if it’s true, that you were trying to stump Gardner Fox by coming up with the “Flash of Two Worlds” cover.

CI: That was Julie, not Fox. Yeah, because I’d do a cover, and dammit, they’d write the story around it, so I was getting very upset by this, so I said, “I’ll fix you.” I did a cover with some guy in the foreground and two Flashes running up, he’s saying, “Help!” and they’re both saying, “I’m coming!” So I put it on his desk and I said, “Here. Solve this!” and I walked out. By the time I got home my phone rang. He said, “We got it solved. I went through hell.” I couldn’t believe it. It was a great story, a terrific story.

The 1966 Joker, Penguin & Riddler posters, colored.

Stroud: Oh, yeah, and it started something big.

CI: Yeah, it was terrific. Julie was very sharp in that area. I always give him lots of credit.

Stroud: As I understand it, you both had a pretty strong sci-fi background as well.

CI: His was more so because he did the magazines. He represented Ray Bradbury, did you know that? He was the agent for Ray, and they were close friends, and so it was Julie’s background, actually, and when we did the Adam Strange, he was home. He was happy again. It was his bailiwick, you know?

Stroud: Back in his element.

CI: Yeah, he loved doing that.

Stroud: What other pencillers do you like?

CI: Inkers or pencillers?

Stroud: Pencillers.

CI: Joe Kubert was terrific. Alex Toth was unbelievable, and my friend, Nick Cardy, was one of the best, the very best. There was Irv Novick; a wonderful artist. I hope I didn’t miss anybody. There were so many of them.

Stroud: How many people were actually on staff at DC? It seems like everybody was freelancing.

CI: Oh, no, no. The only ones on staff were the production people.

Carmine Infantino and Joe Giella original cover art for The Flash #117.

The Flash #123. Pencils by Carmine Infantino. — The Flash #123. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

Stroud: Ah, so the Jack Adler’s…

CI: Yeah, and of course the editors, the four, five, six editors they had. That’s all on staff. Everybody else was freelancers. Writers, artists, pencillers, inkers, letterers, everything. Even the colorists. Yeah, so that’s how the thing worked. All lived by the check every week, not knowing if we’re going to work the rest of the week.

Stroud: That was something Joe Giella was telling me…

CI: It was very tough, very tough.

Stroud: He said you just had to hustle all the time and he said one of the things he loved about Julie was every week he had a check for him and that made all the difference.

CI: That’s true. I had no control over the inking, by the way. He’d put Joe on, or he’d put Murphy on, it was under his control. I had nothing to do with that at all. Some were good, some I wasn’t happy with.

Stroud: Any opinion about the full script vs. the Marvel method?

CI: Uh, we tried both ways at DC, and I think the full script…I liked it, but the other way was effective, too. It wasn’t too bad. It was Joe Orlando who preferred to work that way. I had hired him as an editor, remember? And Joe liked to work that way. He did it with (Sergio) Aragones. Aragones had these great little drawings as he wrote a story and it worked very well. They did some beautiful stories together. Some horror stories, and then the Western…Bat Lash! (Note: Bat Lash ran for 7 issues in ’68 and ’69.)

Stroud: You created that character did you not?

CI: No. Jerry Mayer created the character. But what happened, Nicky called me and said, “Carmine, I just did the first issue. I don’t think it’s good, but take a look at it.” So I looked at it and he was right, it was so bland. So I tried to re-write it over the drawing…over what was written before. It was very difficult. We managed to fix it. I plotted all of them from there on out. It was one of my favorites. But what happened, I gotta be honest, what happened, Joey Orlando, he didn’t give them to Aragones to lay out. He included things in his own thinking there. Then, when the drawing was done, he gave it to O’Neill, who dialogued it. It was a good fit and it worked very well all the way around, I thought. It didn’t sell. (Chuckle.) It sold beautifully in Europe. It went like crazy in Europe.

Stroud: Huh. Just couldn’t do it stateside, huh?

CI: No, the Western didn’t work there.

The Flash #110. Pencils by Carmine Infantino. — The Flash #110. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

The Flash #129. Pencils by Carmine Infantino. — The Flash #129. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

Justice League of America #56. Pencils by Carmine Infantino. — Justice League of America #56. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

Stroud: You’d think there’d be more of a market for that.

CI: I know. We were worried. We wanted that, badly. But we did that with Plop, too. That, too, we tried, you know?

Stroud: Plop kind of flopped.

CI: It did flop. It didn’t work at all. But you gotta keep trying things. You can’t just sit back on your hands. You’ve got to keep working…everything. You try, fail and you try again.

Stroud: How did you come up with the “Infantino pointing hands” on text boxes? They’re a true original.

CI: Oh, I have no idea. I can tell you why. As a kid I used to look at these big blocks of copy, and, remember the splash pages? I would never read them. I said to myself, if I didn’t read them, how many of the kids are reading them now? So what if I just break them up into separate little groups and we use the hand to drag them in? And it seemed to work very effectively.

Stroud: Oh, yeah. It got your attention, especially when you’d show one in a “stop” position.

CI: Yeah, but they’d read it and that’s the point. It was very important, so I think that premise worked.

Stroud: So you were kind of doing Gaspar (Saladino) a little bit of a favor, there.

CI: Yeah, pretty much. He’s very good, he’s a wonderful letterer. I think one of the best. But they do everything electronically now, don’t they?

Stroud: As I understand, it’s almost all done by computer now. That was one thing Joe Kubert told me was the biggest difference when he did “The Prophecy,” was having everything done on the PC.

CI: Right. Does it look any better?

Stroud: I can’t really tell, but I don’t have an artist’s eye.

CI: I haven’t really seen any of the latest work, so I really can’t cast a judgment on it. It must be effective though, if they’re using it. Both companies, right? It must be cheaper, too.

Stroud: No doubt.

CI: I’m sure that’s the main reason.

Lois Lane #89. Pencils by Carmine Infantino. — Lois Lane #89. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

The Flash #155. Pencils by Carmine Infantino. — The Flash #155. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

Stroud: Yeah, it’s all about cost cutting. You got all the way up to publisher at DC, so you know all about the process.

CI: Oh yeah, oh yeah, and the headaches of answering upstairs, you know? Every buck you spend. It was, “Why? What for? Where?” Its part of the job, you know?

Stroud: That had to get old. I bet it was easier to meet a deadline.

CI: For me, you mean? ‘Cause I’d lean on all the editors. Some were good, but Julie was always on time. He was great. Julie and Murray Boltinoff were always on time. And Kubert, I had to push him a little bit, but he got on time. They were all pretty good. Murray, every one of them were fairly good. Everybody got on the stick and we all worked together, and it worked pretty nicely. We had a great group going there.

Stroud: Oh yeah, and the quality shows after all these years.

CI: Yeah, you remember that? We had some great artists. Look at Neal (Adams). My God, he was working on Jerry Lewis in the bullpen when I took over there and I went by his desk, “What the hell are you doing on that stuff?” “That’s what they gave me.” And then we changed that rapidly.

Stroud: His talent needed to be used elsewhere.

CI: Oh, absolutely, it was a joke to leave him there. It was ridiculous, but he became quite a star there on Batman, on House of Mystery. The only problem we had with Neal, he wanted to do his own color and I wouldn’t let him, and I insisted on laying him out, and then we’d fight about that, and then eventually he left; went to Marvel and then Stan Lee called me up one day and said, “Listen, let me ask you a question: How come you got better colors out of Neal than what I’m getting?” “Think about it for a moment, Stan.” “Oh, my God.”

Stroud: Well, that’s a feather in your cap.

CI: Yeah. Of course I enjoyed the writing, too. I did some Wonder Woman. I did, what do you call it? Plotting. I never did dialogue. Only plotting. The Wonder Woman series, you remember that series with Mike Sekowsky and Denny O’Neil?

Stroud: Oh, I sure do, that was about the time she lost her powers.

CI: Yeah, the four-part series, remember that one? When she leaves the island, comes home and wants to be a woman, not a Wonder Woman.

Stroud: That was quite a different thing to do, to turn a superhero non-super.

CI: Yeah, but it worked like hell, the four stories, the four books they went through the roof, the sales. And then I worked on Deadman when Arnold (Drake) left, and somebody had to write #2, #3 and #4, and I needed somebody to dialogue it, so I had Jack Miller do those. I plotted those, but then Neal asked me…he wanted to do it. He wanted to write it and draw it, and that was a big mistake, I think.

Stroud: Really?

CI: The book died under him.

Strange Adventures #205. Pencils by Carmine Infantino. — Strange Adventures #205. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

Superman #199. Pencils by Carmine Infantino. — Superman #199. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

Stroud: Oh, that’s true. I didn’t think about that. Do you think he took it in a different direction than Arnold would have?

CI: Yes, absolutely. When he got back Arnold was very upset by that. I didn’t like it either after I started reading it I said, “What the hell is going on?” Of course after a point I watched the numbers go down, you know? We had put that thing up to 57, 58% of sales and we had printed up to 300,000 copies, and all of a sudden the numbers are diving from 58 every month and then down to 55, 53, 52, 48, and you couldn’t read them. His writing was bad. I made no bones about it. I told him. Now I’ll tell you an interesting story there. He had a big fan. Some guy who worshipped Neal. And he came to me one day, this was a few years ago, and he said, “You know why Deadman failed? You blew it.” I said, “Well, tell me what I did wrong.” He said, “Well, we found out that over 400,000 copies were stolen of the Deadman book.” I said, “Uh-huh. That’s very interesting, because we only printed 275 to 300,000.” So you get all kinds of theories.

Stroud: Yeah, there’s always a conspiracy nut somewhere.

CI: Always, always. And Neal always felt he was a great writer, and I didn’t think he was. That war went on, too. But that’s something else. That’s a whole different ballgame, but he’s a talented artist. You can’t take that away from him. Great talent.

Stroud: He’s got quite a following.

CI: Yes, deservedly so. I don’t think he does comics much any more. I think he’s doing mostly advertising and those storyboards for TV or movies. I believe he does that in California. So apparently he’s very fruitful. I give him credit; he’s done well for himself.

Stroud: How much direction did you take from the scripter?

CI: From Julie, you mean? Julie, Julie, his scripts were heavily edited, by the way. Heavily edited, I mean very heavily edited. He had a heavy hand on the stuff. And I’m talking every script he did, but the end results you saw. He usually had a pattern to his stuff. He’d set the villain up immediately, then he’d pitch in the hero, they’d fight. The hero was in a battle or two and then work toward the end. That was Julie’s premise and he was effective as hell with that. I had a lot of fun with the stuff. My favorite stuff though was Elongated Man and Detective Chimp. Go figure that one out. You wanna know why? I’ll tell you why. Julie hated me inking. Literally hated it. And so the only way I could get to ink, I had to be quick if they had something to ink, so he’d give me Elongated Man, the back features (like Detective Chimp) but never a main feature, but it was like I was saying, it just didn’t carry the volume. There was nothing you could do about it. But the penciling, he’s crazy about.

Stroud: And obviously so with all your work on Mystery in Space and Flash…

CI: I didn’t start that thing, you know. Mike Sekowsky did it. I was in Korea at the time, but he started it. When I came back, Julie said “It’s your book.” I said, “Well, what about Mike?” “No,” he said “he understood it was going to be your book when you came back.” So I talked to Mike. I wouldn’t take their word for it, and Mike said, “No, it’s true, I was told I was only going to do it temporarily until you get back.” And that’s what happened. So I took Adam Strange over I think about the second or third issue. I’m not sure.

Stroud: I remember in Showcase that was Sekowsky initially…

CI: Right. Absolutely. And Gil Kane did the cover, I believe. There was a controversy; I don’t know who was right or not. Murphy claims he created the costume, and Gil said he created the costume.

Stroud: Oh, boy. That one will never be settled.

CI: No, I wouldn’t get in the middle of that one either, I just dropped it completely. The only thing I changed…he had bare arms on the character. He’s out in space with bare arms, so I fixed that. I made some minor changes…

Carmine Infantino and Joe Giella original art for the Mystery In Space #1 story "Nine Worlds To Conquer".

Carmine Infantino and Murphy Anderson original cover art for Mystery In Space #91.

Carmine Infantino and Murphy Anderson original cover art for Batman #196

Stroud: That’s a significant one.

CI: I would think so. It was just small changes I made. But I enjoyed that, and Julie loved doing that. He loved doing that.

Stroud: Oh, yeah, back to the sci-fi.

CI: Oh we did well with that thing, by the way, the book sold very well.

Stroud: Yes, I’ve got several copies of that title and the plots were excellent…

CI: That was his forte, remember that.

Stroud: Yes, and I’ve always been amazed at how productive Gardner Fox was.

CI: Oh, unbelievable. You know who was wonderful? Johnny Broome. John Broome was a fantastic writer. He was very slow. Very, very slow. Sometimes he’d labor over a page for a week, but he was so great. Julie barely touched any of his work, by the way. Maybe he’d put in a comma or something, but other than that he hardly ever touched it. So that’s how great he was. John did a lot of Flash stories, you know. And then Gardner did some too.

Stroud: Speaking of those two, I know you had opportunities in the Detective title to draw each of them into a story. Did anyone ever draw you into a story any time?

CI: I think somebody did at one time. I think when I was editor somebody did, and it wasn’t very flattering, either.

Stroud: Oh, no.

CI: That’s okay. I think it was Gil Kane if I’m not mistaken. I know somebody did, but I don’t know who it was. I can’t remember that.

Stroud: That copy of The Amazing World of DC comics that has you on the round table there…

CI: That was funny, wasn’t it?

DC Special #1. Pencils by Carmine Infantino. — DC Special #1. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

DC Special #1. Original pencils by Carmine Infantino.

The Flash #108. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

Stroud: You drew that one, didn’t you?

CI: Yeah, yeah, and that was cute, “Grodd, put the banana down.” Very funny. We had a good time with that. And it was a long time since I’d drawn, so I had fun doing that.

Stroud: There was quite a stir from the readers when they reassigned art for the Flash to Andru and Esposito.

CI: I know. They were upset I understand.

Stroud: Madder than wet hens. It was amazing.

CI: Why, why? I thought they were terrific artists. I did it. I assigned them, you know.

Stroud: Did you?

CI: Yes, because when I left the drawing I had to pick somebody and I chose them and I thought they were very good, but apparently the readers were not happy.

Stroud: Not for a while anyway.

CI: I don’t understand that.

Stroud: Well, obviously you set a standard that was hard to meet.

CI: I don’t know about that. I mean, Ross is a fine artist, really a wonderful artist.

Stroud: I understand he moved a little slowly.

CI: Yes, he did, he worked very slowly, but meticulous. He was very meticulous. He was a terrific artist. That’s why I thought he was such a good fit on the Flash, but apparently not. Look I picked him for…remember the Spiderman/Superman cover?

Stroud: Yes.

CI: I chose Ross. I laid it out, but I chose him to finish it off and that was my choice. Stan (Lee) had nothing to do with that. And he was working for Stan at the time.

Stroud: That’s something I didn’t know.

CI: Yeah, interesting, huh? But I wanted him on it. And he did. And I think…did Mike ink it?

Stroud: That sounds correct. (Later research revealed it was Dick Giordano.)

CI: Yeah, I think Michael inked it. It was a good cover. Beautifully done.

DC Showcase #4. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

The Avengers #203. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

Red Tornado #2. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

Stroud: Whose idea was that collaboration? Did it come from DC or Marvel?

CI: It came from Marvel. I fought it. I didn’t want it. Because I thought Superman was much bigger than Spiderman at the time, and I didn’t want to give them much press. But the guys upstairs thought it would make money and they didn’t give a damn, so they insisted that we do it.

Stroud: It was kind of a risk putting something out for two bucks.

CI: Right. Yeah. It sold well. It sold out pretty much. So they were ahead of the game. It was a personal thing, that was all that was.

Stroud: The first Deadman story…

CI: That was Arnold (Drake) by the way, he wrote that. Are you the one that told me he was fired after Deadman?

Stroud: No.

CI: Not true, by the way. I don’t think he was fired from there. Not that I know of anyway. Because I think he went to Europe or something at that time. The story I heard, I don’t know if it’s true, I think he left DC at that time, and I know it’s not true because I was stuck with this thing, this book, so I had to do them myself. I got Miller to dialogue them and have him come in the office about 6:00 at night and I’ve give him a plot and he’d go home and do it. We did #2, #3 and #4 and Neal (Adams) came in my office one day and said he wanted to do the writing and drawing and my biggest mistake was saying, “Okay.”

Stroud: How did you guys get away with that opium reference in that first story?

CI: They never touched it. Isn’t that strange, huh?

Stroud: Yeah, I mean the Comics Code was still pretty rigid.

CI: Yeah, yeah, apparently it went right by them. He wrote a beautiful story. Very different. I understand there’s going to be a film made on Deadman.

Stroud: Really?

CI: Yeah, that’s what I heard. Some famous director wants to take it on. The sad part was Arnold dying. He didn’t get in touch with the director and then boom, he died and that was the end of that. Unfortunately.

Stroud: Yeah, in fact I found out he was working on a prequel to the Doom Patrol.

CI: Really? He was doing a lot of work before he died. He was working like mad, but he really wanted to do the Deadman film, I know he did and he was trying to find a director. He had quite a story for it, you know? He wanted to write about Boston Brand’s life before being Deadman, which would be interesting, you know? He had the plot done or something. But apparently he couldn’t get to the director at all, so that was the end of that.

Stroud: And he’d done screenplays before, so that would be old stomping grounds for him.

CI: Oh, yeah. He would have been very good on that. But you know how they are out there, these guys, they’re comic book artists or writers. They’re not interested. They’re above that.

Stroud: Did you prefer covers to interiors or did it make much difference?

CI: Some stories I did. The Batman I didn’t enjoy at all, by the way. So then I just enjoyed the covers. I didn’t like doing the characters. I didn’t like Bob Kane, frankly. He didn’t like my work and there was a big to-do when I’m there and he’d complain about it and I said, “Go to hell, I don’t want to do it any more.” And then they’d talk me into doing it. I told them to shut up, and so on and so forth. But I did all the covers then, you remember that?

Flash Comics #92. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

A panel from Flash Comics #86 featuring Black Canary and Johnny Thunder by Carmine Infantino.

Detective Comics #239. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

Stroud: Yes, and a pile of them you did.

CI: Yeah, and we brought the character back. It was dying, you know. It was literally dying. And we did bring it back. Thankfully. The truth is, we began to bring it back but then the TV thing hit and boom, it took off like a rocket.

Stroud: If I’m not mistaken you were the first artist who actually didn’t have to sign your work as Bob Kane.

CI: Yeah, oh, yeah. He didn’t like that. He didn’t like that at all. He wanted to sign them, too. I said if he signs them I don’t draw them. So that was the end of that.

Stroud: Good for you.

CI: Yeah, well he dearly wanted to…well, you know him. He’s a strange individual.

Stroud: He was pretty impressed with himself from what I’ve gathered.

CI: Oh, that’s all he cared about. In fact, when his wife divorced him, how any woman could leave Bob Kane, was beyond him. He couldn’t believe that. That’s all he really cared about.

Stroud: You've worked for DC and Marvel. Were there big differences between how these companies operated?

CI: They never bothered me. Even when I worked for Marvel. I didn’t even work in the office. I didn’t even go near them. They used to send the work to me, and I’d send it back, you know? And for them I worked on Ms. Marvel, Spiderwoman, Nova. I did some Ghost Rider, too. Not many, just a few. And then of course Star Wars I did, too. That was a tough one. Very tough to draw. I did 12 or 13 issues and just couldn’t handle it any more. It was too much for me, you know? The creator, he called me up, you know? And he thought it was a matter of money, but I said, “No, no. I’ve just had it. It’s going to go downhill from here on out. I’d better leave it.” It was difficult. Very, very difficult. All those characters…even the spaceships. But the two characters were really tough. That little R2D2. Very difficult to draw him. He has all kinds of doo dads on him…

Stroud: That reminds me of what Joe Giella told me about doing the Justice League and having to keep everything straight…

CI: Thankfully I didn’t have to do that damned thing. I would have had a fit on that one. It’s difficult, doing all those characters. Joe did them with no problem, though. Mike (Sekowsky) was very quick on that, he was very fast. And he was good. Don’t sell the man short, he was very good. Toward the end, he got sloppy. In his heyday he was wonderful. He could do anybody. He could do (Jack) Kirby better than Kirby. He was very good, Michael.

Stroud: They do things with color these days that was undreamt-of in the 1960s. Do you like it, or do you consider it a distraction?

CI: Well, it’s not comic books any more, is it? And then some of the drawings are illustrations now. They’re not comic books any more. And also what’s going on, there are no stories. They’ve got guys flexing big muscles, big battle scenes…and that’s it. That wasn’t comic books when I did them anyway. I don’t think they’re selling well either, are they?

Stroud: The industry is struggling.

CI: I think that’s why we’re seeing some of these (Showcase Presents) 500-page reprint books. They can’t lose money on those.

Stroud: The classics never die.

CI: They’re black and white, they’re reprints. Apparently they’re doing well, because DC has put out 5 of them already.

Stroud: At least.

CI: Yeah, ‘cause I’ve done work on all of them. I’ve got copies, that’s how I know.

Carmine Infantino and Bob Wiacek original cover art for Star Wars #19

Star Wars # 30. Pencils by Carmine Infantino.

Carmine Infantino and Bob Wiacek original cover art for Star Wars #35.

Stroud: In the 1960’s you just about locked up the Alley Awards. Which one were you most proud of? (Flash of Two Worlds, “Mystery in Space’s Planet that Came to a Standstill,” Flash in “Doorway to the Unknown,” Deadman’s debut with “Who’s Been Lying in my Grave?”)

CI: Oh, you mean with the comic book fans? We won everything. We were fortunate there.

Stroud: I’d say more than fortunate. I’d say talented.

CI: Well, that had something to do with it. We had some great talents working with us, remember. I had some of the best guys in the business working there. They were all friends and I was happy to work with them. So I was a fan of every one of them. It seemed to show, you know what I mean? Everyone put a lot into their work there.

Stroud: That was something Gaspar [Saladino] told me. He said it was very collaborative. He didn’t think there was much of an ego problem anywhere.

CI: No, no. I made sure of that. I got a room put aside just for the artists and writers so they could bitch, complain, do anything they want. There were no editors allowed in there, and it worked very well. We had some great talent coming in. Bernie Wrightson and of course Nicky Cardy. When I took over there they were giving him a very hard time, you know, and he was going to leave, so I said, “Nicky, I just took over, give me a chance.” It worked out and he stayed, thank goodness. He’s marvelous, just marvelous. I can’t say enough about him.

Stroud: You still hit the convention circuit and were just in Toronto?

CI: It went well. The fans up there are very nice.

Stroud: Good to know you’re still appreciated.

CI: I think so. I hope so.

Stroud: How does it feel to have your work on a U.S. postage stamp?

CI: That was interesting, huh? That was in San Diego that we found out about it and it was interesting. They took two of mine, I think. I was very pleased.

Stroud: I understand you did a great deal of consulting on the first Superman movie, but they didn’t credit you. Did you receive any kind of consideration?

CI: Yeah. My name was supposed to be on the script. I was supposed to be on the film, and then when they dumped me they took my name off the thing. You can’t fight that, but I did a lot of work on that. An awful lot. That first script was a dog. It was “Kill the Pope.” That was the whole plot. And I said, “Mother of God, we can’t do this.” And when I went upstairs and complained they said if you can fix it, go out there. I did and they did. I worked on Superman I and II and saved both plots. They’re pretty good, I think.

Stroud: Regarding the comics code authority: Did the scripts/art work have to be sent to someone away from the DC offices for approval?

CI: Yes, we had to send them to their office and we didn’t send the art, we sent the stats over and they had to give their approval. Most of them went through fine, we had no problems with them. But you know the guys got more creative with those restrictions.

Stroud: That’s true. I think that’s one of the things that really made the Silver Age.

CI: Absolutely. And now what they’ve got…all they’re selling is sex and violence.

Stroud: And profanity.

CI: Yeah. You don’t need that in comic books. That’s not creative any more, you know?

Stroud: It’s lazy scripting.

CI: That’s right.

Carmine Infantino and Murphy Anderson original cover art for Justice League of America #55.

Batman #190. Cover by Carmine Infantino & Joe Giella.

Stroud: Who came up with the go-go checks?

CI: That was Sol Harrison and it was a big mistake. ‘Cause at that time, the books were not selling, and all they had to do was look at the checks and they wouldn’t buy it. DC wasn’t selling at that time, so the checks were a great barometer to avoid the books. They’d see that, they’d say, “Take ‘em off.”

Stroud: Backfired completely, huh?

CI: Yeah, it really backfired. That was Sol. That was before I took over there. Thank goodness.

Stroud: So you don’t have to take the rap for that one.

CI: No, no. Not for that. I would have gotten rid of it myself.

November 29, 2017

An Interview With Joe Giella - The Inker Extraordinaire

November 29, 2017/ Bryan Stroud

Written by Bryan Stroud.

Joe Giella (born June 27, 1928) is a comic book artist, best known for his inking work at DC in the 1960s. He started working in the 1940s as a freelancer for Fawcett Publications and Timely Comics, where he got the chance to ink the Captain America comic book. Soon he started working for DC Comics on books like Green Lantern, The Flash and a few others under the direction of Julie Schwartz. He continued working for DC all the way through the '60s and '70s, during which time he was often collaborating with artists like Carmine Infantino, Gil Kane, and Sheldon Moldoff among others. He remained a constant staff member at DC until the early 80s, when he moved away from comics and started working on commercial art and comic strips. He was the artist on the Mary Worth newspaper strip from 1991 - 2016.

If memory serves (this was over 10 years ago) Joe was the first creator who called me back when I initially tried to reach him. It's hard to describe the thrill of hearing the voice of someone you admire calling and leaving you a voice mail message. Joe was very gracious to me and I'm grateful that he's still with us and going strong, even though he's now retired from drawing the Mary Worth daily strip. Luckily for me, he's become more active in the convention circuit and after all this time I finally met him this last summer at the Denver Comic Con 2017. He's as great in person as he is on the phone and we've enjoyed many conversations over the last decade. I look forward to the next one.

This interview took place on May 3, 2007.

Bryan Stroud: You were involved in the Silver Age right from the beginning and indeed I see where you inked Black Canary in Flash Comics back in 1947. From there you've done everything under the sun, from the cowboy westerns to the Mystery in Space title; Girl's Love Stories, Rex the Wonder Dog, Our Army at War, Strange Adventures, and many, many superhero titles including the reintroduced Flash and Green Lantern in Showcase, the first Adam Strange in Showcase, a segment of the first JLA with Starro the Conqueror, the introduction of Kid Flash and I could go on. Was any genre better or easier than another?

Joe Giella: The JLA was rough because of the different costumes, and multiple characters. Julie would say, "You forgot this or that." It was a tough one. Consistency was important or you'd hear about it.

The Adventures of Rex the Wonder Dog (1952) #46. Pencils by Gil Kane, inks by Joe Giella.

All-Star Western (1951) #84. Pencils by Gil Kane, inks by Joe Giella.

Strange Adventures (1950) #76. Pencils by Gil Kane, inks by Joe Giella.

Stroud: Inking is much more than just coloring inside the lines. Can you tell me a little about the inking process?

JG: None of us started as inkers. We were all pencillers, but inking worked out better for me for monetary reasons. I could ink 2-3 pages a day vs. 1 page of penciling per day. To be a decent inker, you must know how to pencil. Corrections and changes are always necessary.

Stroud: Please tell me your memories of people and events at DC back in the Silver Age. I'll give you a name and ask your impressions: Gil Kane

JG: Good friend. He was one of the best layout men in the business. He really knew how to utilize space to the fullest. His artwork was very dynamic. He was also very articulate and interesting to talk to.

Stroud: Julie Schwartz (Did you work for any other editors?)

JG: Occasionally. Julie was one of my favorite people. He was tough, but fair. I worked for him for 45 years. Julie ensured I had a job every week and he always had a check for me upon delivery. That meant a lot to me. We became good friends.

The very first job in comics was given to me by Ed Cronin at Hilton Periodicals. I had to pencil and ink a feature called Captain Codfish, but I wanted a staff position in order to get that weekly check. The life of a freelancer is tough, financially.

Later on I worked with Stan Lee for 3-1/2 years. I liked the Marvel characters and worked on the Human Torch, Sub-Mariner and Captain America. I got thrown into the bullpen, doing a little bit of everything. I pitched in and did penciling, lettering, inking, just everything. It was great training. I still needed a weekly check, and needed to contribute to the family finances. Three and a half years later I went to work for DC comics.

I penciled and inked the Batman comic strip for DC comics and Julie warned me I wouldn't like working with Mort Weisinger. All the stories about Mort are true. I wanted to do more than just ink, so I tried the strip. I quit twice over salary disputes. DC finally decided that they would pay for the lettering, coloring, and provided me with paper, unlike now where I provide my own supplies on the Mary Worth strip. After 4 years of working with Mort I got tired and went back to comic books. Julie welcomed me with open arms.

Mystery in Space (1951) #66. Pencils by Carmine Infantino, inks by Joe Giella. — Mystery in Space (1951) #66. Pencils by Carmine Infantino, inks by Joe Giella.

Showcase (1956) #23. Pencils by Gil Kane, inks by Joe Giella.

Green Lantern (1960) #1. Pencils by Gil Kane, inks by Joe Giella.

Stroud: Murphy Anderson

JG: Murphy Anderson is a good friend and a true southern gentleman, and his wife Helen is delightful. I have good memories. We worked together on a few assignments.

Stroud: Carmine Infantino

JG: Carmine Infantino's drawings were a little tough to work on. You had to know how to draw and decipher. He's a good layout man and a master of storytelling, but his pencils are loose.

I also paint. Carmine made a layout and asked me to paint it. I worked it out in a monochromatic black and grey set-up. Carmine trusts me, and knows I'll do a decent job. I enjoy being with him, and would like to invite him to our Berndt Toast lunch.

Stroud: Gardner Fox

JG: Gardner Fox was an excellent writer, but I wasn't really acquainted with him. We'd say hello in the hallways.

I'd make deliveries to the DC offices once or twice a month. It was an opportunity to have coffee or lunch with whoever was around, like Gil Kane or Julie. Sometimes the place was empty except for the editors. Working at home is like being in a cocoon. It gets lonely and you start talking to yourself. When that begins to happen, look out.

Joe Kubert was sort of on staff in those days, too. You just never knew who would be around.

Joe Giella sitting at his drawing board.

Stroud: Mike Sekowsky

JG: Mike Sekowsky had a very bad temper. Anyone that crossed him had better look out. He drank. He had a great style and knew how to dress characters in up to date fashions. We called him "The Speed Merchant." Mike could pencil 5 to 7, even 10 pages a day. He couldn't ink, but he could pencil very, very fast. He was good and was a credit to the company. He was the go-to guy, but began to deteriorate later. One day he completed a story and I was asked to ink it, but it was very bad and I couldn't ink it. I was asked to re-pencil it and I did so gladly, because Mike really saved me once on a job and wouldn't accept a dime for his help. Wouldn't you know that when I delivered it, Mike was in the office, raging at Dick Giordano? I told him I had to re-do the whole job and expected him to be teed off at me, but he wasn't. He was really teed off at Dick Giordano for not giving him more work. He called about 6 months later from California asking if I had any work for him. Imagine the great Mike Sekowsky calling me for work. At the time I was working on the Flash Gordon strip, but it wasn't mine and I didn't have the authority to give him work and the editors didn't want to take a chance on him. It was sad. I liked Mike very much, but the drinking was really starting to hurt him.

Stroud: In the foreword to "The Greatest 50's Stories Ever Told", Joe Kubert wrote the following. Do you recall the incident?

"I remember a weekend up in Toronto, Canada, when Carmine, Joe Giella and myself (I was the chauffeur, since I was the only one with a car—the car was owned by me and the finance company) went up to our "northern neighbor" on a date. We got snowed in for a week. It's very difficult, indeed, to finish deadline work when you're up in Canada and the artwork's in Brooklyn!"

JG: We were caught in that snowstorm in Toronto partly because we were driving into the storm. We were fellow students along with Mike Sekowsky at the Art Students League. We learned the basics like figure drawing.

Stroud: John Broome

JG: John Broome was a nice gentleman who lived in Japan for a time. He was tall and slim and he reminded me of Gary Cooper. He was a good friend of Julie's and was devoted to his work. I guess that's what makes a good writer.

Alter Ego (1999) #52. Cover by Joe Giella.

The Mighty Marvel Superheroes' Cookbook (1977) TPB. Cover by Joe Giella.

Stroud: Bill Finger

JG: I didn't know Bill Finger. I was closer to Bob Kane. For awhile Bob had a television show where he would sketch characters on a pad in front of a live audience. He'd do about a dozen drawings of each character. What many people don't know is that he was drawing over light lines I'd laid down, using his magic marker. I was paid by him, out of his own pocket, but my kids used to say, "Dad, that's not fair." I had to explain to my kids that I was assisting him.

A true story about Bob Kane: Bob asked me to go with him to the police station to recover his lost wallet. We walked to the desk and Bob said, "I'm Bob Kane and I lost my wallet." They didn't know who he was and that made him very indignant, so he practically shouted, "I'm Bob Kane, the creator of Batman!" I felt like crawling under a desk. The police gathered around him and started asking all kinds of questions and really rolled out the red carpet. I stood there in amazement, thinking, "These guys are nuts." Bob retained the rights to Batman and the characters for years until DC finally bought him out and so when I was doing the newspaper strip I had to sign it as Bob Kane. Sometimes, though, I'd put a truck in the background with something like Giella's Donuts or Joe's Donuts, just to get a little personal touch in there. After I left the strip my successor was able to sign his own name since DC got the rights to the characters.

Stroud: You've done mainly inking, but a fair amount of penciling, too. Which do you prefer?

JG: Between pencils and inks, I liked both, but when I was penciling I couldn't wait to do the finish. That's the drawback to just being a penciller is that you can never finish the job. The job is finished when it's inked. The reverse is true, too. If you could only ink, you could never have the satisfaction of completing a job yourself.

I did a lot of licensing work, penciling and inking for DC comics. Those jobs paid a lot more than the standard page rate and I also attended meetings with the client to discuss the assignment. As I recall, I'd go home and do the layouts and then get DC's approval and then deliver the finished product to our client, the National Biscuit Company.

I also designed 21 T-shirts for Walt Disney Studios through Alison Manufacturing Company and worked for many advertising companies. Diversifying is the name of the game.

Stroud: Have you seen the new Showcase Presents series by DC? The Flash, Volume I is coming out on May 16, 2007 and I believe includes stories you worked on. Do you think they lack something without the colors?

JG: No. I've been a little out of touch lately with the comics.

DC Special (1975) #16. Gorilla cover art featuring Ross Andru, Mike Esposito, Joe Giella, Carmine Infantino, George Klein, and Curt Swan.

The Flash (1959) #163. Pencils by Carmine Infantino , inks by Joe Giella.

The Flash (1959) #163 cover re-creation commission done by Joe Giella.

Stroud: What was with DC and gorillas?

JG: Covers were based on previous sales, so if a cover included a gorilla and sold well, Julie Schwartz would say, "That book sold, do something similar." They used this as a barometer for future covers.

Stroud: Let me ask you a question I asked of Joe Kubert. Do you think inking with a brush, as opposed to inking with a pen, is becoming a lost art? It seems few people do it anymore.

JG: I do 90% of my work with a pen. It gives a better effect. Brushes are difficult and can ruin your eyesight after awhile. I only use a brush for filling in large black areas and I use a flexible pen like a brush. People often think I use a brush to ink.

Stroud: Your credits list is extensive and I see where you worked on Elvira's House of Mystery in 1986. Was that the last time you did any comic work?

JG: My son keeps up with all that, but I think my last comic work was penciling and inking a 23 page memorial story on Julie Schwartz for DC Comics.

I still do an occasional job for DC, but it takes time. I do slow, careful work and if I can have, say, 3 months - I can do it. My strip keeps me very busy.

Mary Worth by Karen Moy & Joe Giella from August 4, 2016.

Mary Worth by Karen Moy & Joe Giella from February 8, 2015.

Mary Worth by Karen Moy & Joe Giella from January 17, 2016.

Stroud: Mary Worth isn't your first foray into comic strips. You penciled and inked the Batman comic strip in particular and also worked on The Phantom and others. Do you enjoy strip work? How far ahead do you have to produce them?

JG: I've worked on the Mary Worth strip for 16 years and I really like it. I was told when I started, "Joe, you won't be happy with this. You don't have superheroes flying around and crashing through walls. Mary Worth is a low-key soap opera." Initially, they were right. It was a little boring, but I soon found I could do interesting things with facial expressions and such.

I get 10 to 15 fan letters a month. Some drove me crazy. One guy wrote in and took me to task by saying that Harvard never had a lion on its crest. Well, that's true except that I was depicting the crest for Harvard Medical School, which does have a lion and I know that because I got it from my nephew, who graduated from Harvard Medical School. I should write that guy back and set him straight. I also got a note once saying I'd put six fingers on one character and sure enough when I went back to the strip I'd done it, but when you're working until 2 or 3 in the morning to beat a deadline stuff can happen.

Doing dailies and the Sunday strip gets hectic sometimes. Once I got behind and the syndicate fined me $1,200.00! I thought it had to be a mistake, but they said, "Joe, didn't you read your contract?" Well, sure, but I figured the fine was much less. As you can see, I’m very conscious of deadlines.

Stroud: I understand you still do commissions. If someone wanted one how would they go about contacting you?

JG: I do 2 to 3 commission jobs a month. I paint, do black and whites or color, or pencil, whatever they want. I enjoy an international fan base and have sent work to the UK, Belgium, Germany and other locations. I tell them all the same thing when I get a request: I'll put them on the line. The line moves slowly, but it moves. I work to the client's pocketbook. If they've got a set amount to spend I work with them. Regardless of whether it's a painting or a simple pencil sketch, the quality is the same. I'm often asked if I can do a specific character. After 50 years I've done them all, so it's not a problem. I'm a freelance artist and I've got the experience. If someone asks, give them my number.

Stroud: June 27th is your 79th birthday and you remain very active with the daily strip, your involvement in the Berndt Toast Gang (the Long Island chapter of cartoonists) and other activities. Do you see yourself retiring any time?

JG: I have no plans to retire. I have given up deep sea fishing, but I still do carpentry and lots of walking. I'm into nutrition, too. Those of us who are in sedentary jobs can do themselves the biggest favor by getting exercise.

A commission from Joe Giella featuring Superman & The Flash.

Joe Giella in 2009. (Photo credit to Luigi Novi)

Stroud: Do you appear in any comic books? Thanks to a reference in the All-Star Companion I discovered Strange Adventures #140, which contains a story by Gardner Fox where he, Julie, Ed Eisenberg, and Sid Greene appear. I just wondered if anyone ever depicted you.

JG: I don't know that I've ever been depicted in a comic, but thanks to one of my former students, a silhouette of me is in an episode of The Simpson's. It shows a group of kids going by an art studio and Matt Groening sometimes likes to poke good-natured fun at Mary Worth. So, they're going by the office where Mary Worth is produced and they all just walk right by. My silhouette is shown collapsing on the desk. I thought it was hilarious and when I recently met Matt Groening in Manhattan I said, "Matt, I love the way you make fun of Mary Worth."

Stroud: Was there any satisfaction in finally being able to sign your work in the mid-60's?

JG: Neal Adams was probably due some credit for our being able to sign our work starting in the mid-60's. It was nice to be able to do so.

As you can see, Joe is a knowledgeable, wonderful man and he paid me a compliment that still has me grinning: "You really have a way of putting people at ease." Frankly, I don't know how anyone could have a difficult time sharing a conversation with this fine man. I'm very grateful for the opportunity, and I hope you enjoyed it half as much as I did.

November 22, 2017

An Interview With Joe Kubert - A Masterful Hand in Comics

November 22, 2017/ Bryan Stroud

Written by Bryan Stroud

Joe Kubert, Photo Credit: Jim Salicrup for COMICS INTERVIEW

Born on September 18, 1926, Joseph "Joe" Kubert was an American comic book artist, art teacher and founder of The Kubert School. He is best known for his work on the DC Comics characters Sgt. Rock and Hawkman. He is also known for working on his own creations, such as Tor, Son of Sinbad, the Viking Prince, and (with writer Robin Moore) the comic strip Tales of the Green Beret. Two of Kubert's sons - Andy Kubert and Adam Kubert - themselves became successful comic book artists, as have many of Kubert's former students, including Stephen R. Bissette, Amanda Conner, Rick Veitch, Eric Shanower, Steve Lieber, and Scott Kolins.

Joe Kubert was inducted into the Harvey Awards' Jack Kirby Hall of Fame in 1997, and the Will Eisner Comic Book Hall of Fame in 1998. He passed away on August 12, 2012.

Tor (1975) #1 by Joe Kubert from DC comics.

Son of Sinbad (1950) #1 from ANC. Cover by Joe Kubert.

DC Special (1968) #12 featuring Viking Prince by Joe Kubert.

My original Kubert interview was kind of frustrating for me. Joe was one of the greats and a truly nice guy, but he didn't seem to enjoy talking much about himself. I learned later, seeing other interviews online, that he was similarly brief in his comments - so I felt a little better about it. Since the interview was conducted via e-mail, I didn't have much control or influence over it. Fortunately I would have another opportunity later (when I interviewed Jack Adler) to speak with Joe on the phone and he had a lot more to say.

One kindness Joe did for me was to autograph my copy of DC Special #5, "The Secret Lives of Joe Kubert" issue. I'll never forget the thrill when I pulled the envelope out of the mailbox. Suddenly I was an excited 10-year old again. It very nearly eclipsed the purchase of his art book a few years later with his original Hawkman sketch on one of the interior leaves.

This interview took place on March 29, 2007.

DC Showcase (1956) #102 featuring Hawkman. Cover by Joe Kubert.

DC Speacial (1968) #5, The Secret Lives of Joe Kubert.

Star Spangled War Stories (1952) #146 from DC comics, featuring Enemy Ace. Cover by Joe Kubert.

Bryan Stroud: You enjoyed a long and productive partnership with Bob Kanigher at DC, clear back to that first Silver Age story of the Flash in Showcase #4. How was he to work with? Which titles were the most fun to work on?

Joe Kubert: It was a great experience and I enjoyed illustrating all his stories.

Stroud: Did you have any trouble navigating the Comics Code?

JK: No.

Stroud: What were things like in the DC bullpen?

JK: Busy.

Stroud: Who were your friends?

JK: Jack Adler and all the guys in production.

Stroud: You worked on virtually every major character in the DC catalog at one time or another, going back to 1944. Are there any you enjoyed working on more than others?

JK: I enjoyed them all – in retrospect.

Our Army At War (1952) #102 from DC comics. Cover by Joe Kubert.

Sgt. Rock Special #3 (1977) from DC comics. Cover by Joe Kubert.

Sgt. Rock (1977) #396 from DC comics. Cover by Joe Kubert.

Stroud: You are particularly identified with the war titles such as Sgt. Rock and Enemy Ace. Was any of your inspiration from your own time in the service overseas?

JK: No.

Stroud: Your sons have followed you into the illustration business. Does it feel satisfying to watch them develop their talents?

JK: I feel it’s a miracle.

Stroud: You operate the only accredited school devoted entirely to cartooning and have an impressive list of alumni. Has this “second career” been as good as or better than your first?

JK: This (the school) is not my career. I am a cartoonist – first, last and always.

Stroud: Are there any Golden Age characters you wish had survived into the Silver Age?

JK: None come to mind.

Stroud: Did you have any concerns about the super-heroes disappearing in the 40’s? Did it look like your work might evaporate?

JK: No.

Original art for the cover to Our Army At War (1952) #193 by Joe Kubert.

Original art for the cover to The House of Mystery (1951) #292 by Joe Kubert. — Original art for the cover to The House of Mystery (1951) #292 by Joe Kubert.

Original art for the cover to G.I. Combat (1952) #198 by Joe Kubert.

Stroud: What sort of research did you do for the Viking Prince title?

JK: Books, illustrations, Prince Valiant.

Stroud: Your inking style was unique. How did you choose to render form at a time when the DC house style was to mostly just indicate stuff with a simple outline?

JK: Purely intuitive and never questioned by DC or anyone else.

Stroud: Do you think inking with a brush, as opposed to inking with a pen, is becoming a lost art? It seems few people do it anymore, but it is essential to your style.

JK: I don’t think so.

Stroud: Your knowledge of military gear is legendary. How did this come about? Through references, or is it all in your head?

JK: Reference. ALWAYS reference.

Stroud: Who were your influences? Hal Foster maybe?

JK: Hal Foster, Alex Raymond and Milt Caniff.

Weird War Tales (1971) #5 from DC comics. Cover by Joe Kubert.

Stroud: Whose idea was Jackie Johnson, and was there any opposition to having a black soldier in Easy Company?

JK: Bob Kanigher (the writer/editor.) No.

Stroud: Did you enjoy working with Brian Azzarello on "Between Hell and a Hard Place"?

JK: Yes, very much.

Stroud: Do you think Brian stewarded these characters well?

JK: Yes.

Stroud: How long did it take to pencil and ink a typical page?

JK: One day.

Stroud: You recently produced a new Sgt. Rock story. What sort of differences did you encounter in how it was done today as opposed to the Frank Rock of the 60’s?

JK: The use of computers for lettering, color and reproduction.

Cover to Man of Rock: A Biography of Joe Kubert (2008), drawn by Joe Kubert.

November 15, 2017

An Interview With Gaspar Saladino - The Legend of Lettering & Logos

November 15, 2017/ Bryan Stroud

Written by Bryan Stroud

Gaspar Saladino was born on September 1, 1927 in Brooklyn, New York. As a young man he worked in the fashion industry, but in the early 1950's he made a career change and moved into comic lettering and logo design. He was taken on by DC as a freelance interior letterer and by 1967 had taken over most of the cover lettering and logo design for the company. In his time at DC Gaspar designed the logos for Swamp Thing, Vigilante, Phantom Stranger, Metal Men, Adam Strange, House of Mystery, House of Secrets, and Unknown Soldier, among others. Mr. Saladino passed away on August 4, 2016.

I was incredibly nervous when I called Gaspar, and he was as nice as he could be (we became phone friends until he passed in 2016) and just seemed sort of baffled as to why anyone would be interested in something he'd done simply to provide for his family. He wasn't comfortable with being recorded, so I had to do some fancy hand jamming. Gaspar was, of course, the highly prolific letterer for DC Comics, taking over for Ira Schnapp beginning in the Silver Age up until his retirement. He's probably best known for designing the logo for Swamp Thing and his incredible work on Arkham Asylum, though he did so much more than just that. I've never heard anyone say anything but good things about him and I still miss his laugh. To my knowledge, I'm the only one who ever interviewed him.

An example of the lettering on Arkham Asylum done by Gaspar Saladino.

The Swamp Thing logo designed by Gaspar Saladino.

Bryan Stroud: You were a fashion illustrator when you started with DC in the 1950s. Did you ever regret the direction you took?

Gaspar Saladino: No. The fashion business was headed toward photography, so I had no regrets.

Stroud: When Carmine Infantino came on as DC's editorial director, you were taken off of interior lettering, and took on the lettering for virtually every cover DC published. This changed the whole line's look, from Ira Schnapp's more sedate style to yours. How did becoming DC's cover letterer affect your approach?

GS: It didn't affect my approach, but I enjoyed it much more. It allowed me some artistic expression that the interiors lacked. I had carte blanche with sound effects and placement. There weren't many egos to deal with and it was a very collaborative effort.

Different logos and letters from Gaspar Saladino. (1)

Stroud: What do you think of digital lettering? Ever feel tempted to try it?

GS: No. I’m computer ignorant.

Stroud: The loopy sound effects used in the Batman TV series opened the door for sfx to be bigger and crazier, and you hopped on this trend with a vengeance. Any comments?

GS: It didn’t really affect my work that much.

Stroud: Your lettering looks different depending on who penciled a book. At DC, pencillers roughed in all lettering before you ever got at the page. How much of your cues did you take from the penciller? Did your style develop as you translated their roughs into finished lettering?

GS: Again, it was all very collaborative. I have some wonderful and warm memories of Ross Andru, Gil Kane, Joe Kubert, Curt Swan and Murphy Anderson, among others and we always seemed to be able to work well together and to come up with a good product that everyone approved.

Stroud: Your exclamation marks were one of your trademarks, big and bold. Why’d you adopt this style?

GS: It was for effect. If they weren't there I'd add them.

Stroud: Unlike most free-lancers, you actually worked at DC's bullpen. I think you were living in Long Island at the time. Why’d you make the trip to NYC every day instead of working at home?

GS: DC wanted a full-time letterer and by being present I got first choice of assignments. I also thought it was beneficial to be able to work hand in hand with the artists.

Stroud: When you were doing interiors, pencillers used to beg editors to have you do their books. How were these decisions made? Julie Schwartz and Robert Kanigher seemed to have a lock on your services, while George Kashdan and Murray Boltinoff and Jack Schiff hardly ever got to use your work. How’d all this come about?

GS: Julie was the final word on how work was doled out and it was often time dependent, as in how hot the deadline was. There were certain "cliques" in the offices and some politics but I never found it to be a problem.

Stroud: Can you tell me anything about Ira Schnapp, whose work pretty much defined DC's covers and logos for 25 years?

GS: "Mr. DC." He was the original letterer on Superman and Green Lantern in the 30's. The titles were done by him and he had his own desk in the production department. It was sad that when he left it was as though he'd never been there at all. So much of it all came down to business, though. It was to make money.

Stroud: Wherever the best pencillers were, you were. Who did you enjoy working with most?

GS: I worked with a lot of wonderful people, but was especially fond of Gil Kane. I was an usher at his wedding and we lived in the same borough in Brooklyn. Gil could break down a story in 10 minutes for a rough. Alex Toth was the best hand in Julie's stable. He drew quickly and well and was the genius of them all.

Different logos and letters from Gaspar Saladino. (3)

Stroud: Did you use a template for your balloons? They look like they were done freehand.

GS: I did not use a template. I liked freehand.

Following are some other random comments during the interview that didn’t relate directly to any questions:

Gaspar began on the "Cowboy Romance" books in 1951.

Joe Kubert sat next to Robert Kanigher. Bob Kanigher also gave Gaspar complete freedom on sound effects. He had very good things to say about Ross Andru. Apparently Ross was agnostic and he and Gaspar made a pact that whoever passed on first would try to make contact with the other. "I haven't heard anything yet."

Deadlines were about a week for pencils on any story.

Bernard Sachs was an inker he really admired.

Original art was stored at the DC offices. Once the pieces were produced, the artists no longer had any rights to them. Apparently today the practice is the opposite. The artists get their copy back.

Curt Swan was a very pleasant gentleman.

On Friday afternoons the writers and artists would gather and the conversations were simply amazing. It was a "good slice on life." Many were war vets and they'd swap war stories.

He created the logo for both Swamp Thing and Metal Men among others. During the conversation I mentioned the way that the Sizzler issue really leaped out and grabbed you.   Gaspar confirmed that covers like the Sizzler did their job: They got attention and sales at the newsstand. He pulled his copy out when we were discussing it. He also did logos for the Vigilante and Eclipse.

Irv Novick worked well with Robert Kanigher.

Lettering for the foreign issues was done in country.

Creator Conversations - Retro

Creator Conversations - Retro

Nerd Team 30